I agree. Rankings versus stats though, I still think I like the stats aspect better, but it also has its flaws (injuries).
I think the major flaw is not only the work that would have to go in, but when you're thinking about your future commitments it would be nice to have a way to see how he is stacking up to others and being able to make an educated guess for how much he will cost next year.
Post by TB Rays (RSP) on Jan 31, 2017 14:39:21 GMT -5
That's why I like the stats option I guess, because during the season and even after the season, I can clearly see where his stats rank him against his peers / other players in his same age or position. The Yahoo rank is more subjective.
Yea it would be alot of work, but really, a simple spreadsheet with formulas plugged in would make it a couple hours work. Because we aren't talking about EVERY player using this formula, just the expiring rookie contracts. and as long as its saved year to year, you just have to update stats and then added the newly expired guys to it. Throw it up on a Google drive so everyone can view it.
Post by Pirates (Gregg) on Jan 31, 2017 17:31:16 GMT -5
How about more simplified version. After RY1 contract three year arbitation starting $4 - RA1, $6 - RA2, RA3 - 8, then normal free angency starts $1.5 (1-4 years). At the end of the RA season you would have option to opt out of the contract. Would this work? This is one reason to back off free agency for further discussion.
Arbitration implies an arbitrator who values the TWO SIDES of the arbitration and decides on whatever comes into his head. None of these proposals include that, so they can't be right. On the other hand, I would not be happy with including that, so I think we ought to leave well enough alone. Just sayin'
Arbitration implies an arbitrator who values the TWO SIDES of the arbitration and decides on whatever comes into his head. None of these proposals include that, so they can't be right. On the other hand, I would not be happy with including that, so I think we ought to leave well enough alone. Just sayin'
Arlo
I just don't think well enough is well enough. You get 3 years of minimum, then 4 years of close to minimum, then 4 more years of an average salary? That is basically full control of a player at well below average salaries. I like Pirates strategy too. Maybe Arbitration is the wrong word, but there should be an alteration. Any of the options are viable in my opinion. I think first we need a vote about whether we should make a change, and if (hopefully) that vote passes, we can lay out the different options and decide on one of them.
No Change: You own young players for their whole career at well-below market value Cubs Option: A true stat based indicator, most work Marlins Option: Strictly based off comparative performance, fairly simple approach Pirates Option: No comparisons, just a simple $4/$6/$8 escalator
Post by TB Rays (RSP) on Feb 1, 2017 7:09:04 GMT -5
I think we all see the flaw in the current system. The question is which direction to go. I too see both ideas having merit (I dont like Pittsburgh's idea much at all, because by year 5 or 6 when the resign period comes you are talking $12 for any young player to be resigned). While some players will be worth that investment, others arent. Both the statistical approach and Ranking approach actually grade the "real" value of the player. Either of those are better than all 4th year players are all worth $6. In my eyes, that approach would de-value mid level prospects and rookies.
I just don't understand how you can make retroactive rules effecting players that managers have already made major decisions based on the rules that were in place. I see 5 or 6 guys out of however many we have making up this complicated morass. You say "we all see the flaw . . . " it is just the 6-pack of you guys led by a brand new member. The one guy says "as long as the rules are set in stone" and he is right because you can't do this if you can't depend on the rules and the rules were already made and already been depended upon.
Now, a question: When a player has a good 2nd year and then a bad third year, is his price reduced? How about the rest of the players? Why does their value not rise and fall with their performance? I got a guy for $6 with zero stats, why doesn't he get his salary reduced? It's the same "problem" that you guys see from the other side.
Post by TB Rays (RSP) on Feb 1, 2017 9:04:02 GMT -5
Do players salaries get reduced for under performing in real life. Nope. Thats just bad luck. You hope they turn it around.
Anyone who can't see owning a young player for 10 plus years at $6 or under as a flaw has zero experience in salary cap leagues or is blind because they have a team full of young guys and they dont care about the longevity of the league, only their own team.
There are no retroactive changes to be made because the first set of rookie contracts are just now expiring to a point where their future salaries should be determined.
And vets salaries are completed by bid. YOU choose their salary when you bid on them or trade for them. So no, they aren't adjusted because we are setting them. If all rookies were bid on instead of doing generic $2 / $4 contracts, then this wouldnt be a discussion. Guys like Bryant and Betts would have gone for much higher in a rookie bid then $2. Your $6 guy is $6 because someone really wanted him and bid that much. He wasnt drafted as a rookie.
Do players salaries get reduced for under performing in real life. Nope. Thats just bad luck. You hope they turn it around.
Anyone who can't see owning a young player for 10 plus years at $6 or under as a flaw has zero experience in salary cap leagues or is blind because they have a team full of young guys and they dont care about the longevity of the league, only their own team.
There are no retroactive changes to be made because the first set of rookie contracts are just now expiring to a point where their future salaries should be determined.
And vets salaries are completed by bid. YOU choose their salary when you bid on them or trade for them. So no, they aren't adjusted because we are setting them. If all rookies were bid on instead of doing generic $2 / $4 contracts, then this wouldnt be a discussion. Guys like Bryant and Betts would have gone for much higher in a rookie bid then $2. Your $6 guy is $6 because someone really wanted him and bid that much. He wasnt drafted as a rookie.
Do players salaries get reduced for under performing in real life. Nope. Thats just bad luck. You hope they turn it around.
Anyone who can't see owning a young player for 10 plus years at $6 or under as a flaw has zero experience in salary cap leagues or is blind because they have a team full of young guys and they dont care about the longevity of the league, only their own team.
There are no retroactive changes to be made because the first set of rookie contracts are just now expiring to a point where their future salaries should be determined.
And vets salaries are completed by bid. YOU choose their salary when you bid on them or trade for them. So no, they aren't adjusted because we are setting them. If all rookies were bid on instead of doing generic $2 / $4 contracts, then this wouldnt be a discussion. Guys like Bryant and Betts would have gone for much higher in a rookie bid then $2. Your $6 guy is $6 because someone really wanted him and bid that much. He wasnt drafted as a rookie.
Exactly. About your previous point, I like that there should be decision making for players, especially after ARB is up. In real life you get tremendous value for 3 years, and good value for 3 years. If they aren't worth it, don't offer. Once they reach Free Agency, there should be a decision whether to resign them with no competition of risk bidding on him against the other members of the league.
Post by TB Rays (RSP) on Feb 1, 2017 15:08:06 GMT -5
I agree decisions should have to be made, I just dont know that I agree with all of those players being grouped together with the same salaries just because they were called up the same year. When you are called up and the level of player you are, are 2 very different concepts.
Ryan (Cubs): Today is the last day to re-sign your restricted free agents! All players that are left unsigned will be dropped tomorrow and eligible for free agency
Feb 23, 2024 10:02:14 GMT -5
Padres (Rodger): Luis Matos is showing up twice on my roster sheet, as a OF and a SP, can you remove the SP line please.
Feb 24, 2024 6:56:36 GMT -5
Pirates (Gregg): Everyone update your Yahoo Roster!
Feb 25, 2024 12:41:26 GMT -5
Red Sox (Kris): We still have a MAX 20 prospects, correct?
Feb 26, 2024 9:15:10 GMT -5
Ryan (Cubs): Yes. 20 prospects is the MiLB max, you either need to drop a prospect or call someone up if you are over that limit.
Feb 26, 2024 11:56:08 GMT -5
Red Sox (Kris): I don’t, but I know that some do. So, to be clear, we can draft over the 20 limit as long as we cut down before the season starts?
Feb 29, 2024 23:45:26 GMT -5
Ryan (Cubs): Technically you should be dropping a player anytime a draft pick or trade takes you over the limit of 20. I must've missed it but Yankees needs to release one of his MiLB players, they are the only team over the limit right now
Mar 1, 2024 7:43:12 GMT -5
Red Sox (Kris): Thanks for clarifying
Mar 1, 2024 8:48:23 GMT -5
Blue Jays (Brandy): Still willing to talk SP......
Mar 3, 2024 1:12:18 GMT -5
Rockies (Jose): Is Yuki Matsui rostered?
Mar 12, 2024 16:15:04 GMT -5
Ryan (Cubs): Technically you can't bid on Yuki in free agency until he pitches an inning in the MLB. You could have drafted him in the MiLB draft, but players that haven't made their debut can't be nominated in Free Agency.
Mar 13, 2024 13:37:27 GMT -5
Blue Jays (Brandy): Shopping Gallen if anyone needing an ace level sp
Mar 29, 2024 11:53:28 GMT -5
Blue Jays (Brandy): Shopping Vaughn if anyone needs a 1b?
Apr 2, 2024 19:06:22 GMT -5
Mariners (Rook): I do believe Ronel Blanco free agent final bid of $3/3 by LAD is invalid and the player should be returned to free agency. That was LAD last transaction and it put his cap -0.25. We can’t go negative cap. What say you?
Apr 5, 2024 21:29:05 GMT -5
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Ryan (Cubs): @mariners, correct. LAD's bid on Blanco put him $.25 over the cap so the bid is invalidated. I've messaged LAD and dropped Blanco from his roster
Apr 8, 2024 7:28:32 GMT -5
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Pirates (Gregg): @mariners Tyler Holton RP DET
Apr 8, 2024 19:39:18 GMT -5
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Ryan (Cubs): NEW FORUM UPDATE: I created a new space to list your Prospect Promotions. A lot of the promotions get lost in the Roster Moves tab. Please post all of your prospect call-ups in the new section and I'll be able to update the page faster!
Apr 16, 2024 7:42:44 GMT -5
Ryan (Cubs): Of course D’Arnaud hits 3 HR today…after I put him on waivers
Apr 19, 2024 20:46:13 GMT -5